Theorycraft TvP

So I tried meching against toss the other day, expecting to get totally owned. I opened with 10 supply > 12 rax > 13 gas > marine > tech lab > marauder > concussive > factory > second gas > techlab > hellion > preignitor. somewhere in there a got a second factory and then expanded. i was able to harrass his expo and main to great effect. i then got a few tanks and pushed with tanks + hellions and it really felt pretty solid. i ended up losing this game but the guy i was playing is someone that i always lose to and i felt that this build worked out a lot better than the traditional mass mmmgv. the fact that hellions are so mobile really helps you take map control and deal with zealot drops. this build does have a lot of problems though and i havent quite figured out what army composition counters collosus + immortal but keep in mind this was my first attempt. I also tried to work bc's in another game and those are not as garbage as people make them out to be. 4 bc's can take out 8 voidrays. they also work really well against stalkers. now think about this:

mech build in to bc's or banshees.

you force him to make lots of immortals and he still techs to collosi, so the best counter to this would be air, right?

tell me what you think :P

im not sure about mech, it seems very difficult but so rewarding if you can pull if off, my main qualm is that tanks get destroyed by so much of the protoss army and they seem to be the backbone mech needs to work.

i have personally been using this build...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172190
...in every TvP i've played lately and i havnt lost a game yet.

im not executing it as well as i could, and im constantly learning new little parts to the build, micro and timings.

on the whole its fairly amazing though, the army composition in the end is amazing, it actually feels so overpowered.

The crux of the build is that you FE with 3 full bunkers with marines and repair ready. then deny scouting with a raven and a thor (absolutely shuts down any scouting and also if they see you thor, they often suspect mech). You then get 4 starports pumping rounds of banshees and push with everything you have while expoing and getting a core.

Heres what ive worked out so far in terms of unit composition responses.i have a few replays ill amend to this post, im mainly only playing mid-high diamonds though so theyre not amazing.

Interesting build, I'll have to think about it.

@echoes that build seems gosu, definitely going to try squeeze some wins out of it soon!

Definitely like this build. Send me some replays of you guys doing the build, I would love to do a GOTW of this build.

i sent you one of me doing it bobo, it was the first time i ever tried it. let me know if u got it?

also i have found the main weakness to the build ive been using which is storm.

the banshees tend to fly pretty clumped on top of a marine only/heavy army, i played a protoss last night, and i slightly missed the timing attack, allowing him to scout me and react, when i got over to his side he lay down a tonne of storms and killed my whole army. i think with some spreading/juking it might be ok thought. I also lost to a guy who got some voidrays and a mothership out, not sure how to deal with this one yet, i think the loss was more because my macro started to fail as it was a new map i didnt know, rather than a problem with the build.

My newish style of TvP was designed to open up the entire tech tree, and react to the protoss decision making, let me run you guys through it.

Open double rax FE (i usually go double tech lab depending on the rush distance, further definitely double TL, closer I just want to bunker up so marines are ideal). Second gas after expo started, then add a third rax with tech lab as well. Really good 2 rax timings with concussive stim pushes, and 3 rax timing is a bit off but still usable for defense. (keep in mind if they open with a stargate, gg if you have no marines, so scout).

At this point I have 3 rax with techlab, double gas, and an expansion, normally I'll grab the next two gas straight away from the expo, to go heavy mech (double 2 factory fast, and a 3rd later, you have the tech labs and the 3rd rax can be used to build addons as you need them). Ill usually throw tanks in first then progress into starport tech, alot of vikings for colo and banshees if i feel like it.

This kind of style is pretty common i think, its about scouting, but adding the 3rd rax allows you to push more, and expand aggressively. This build is good on the new maps and on the shattered temple esp. I like it personally cause i can go heavy mech after expo, heavy rax after expo, or tech into starport and expand hardcore. Ghosts are awesome after a third expo fyi.

Pioneer that build sounds good, i havnt played with tech lab openings yet, they seem good for pressure though.

Here are a few reps of the banshee build if anyone wants to have a look, just mid diamond so nothing too crazy.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=195075
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=195076
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=195077

Game one is pretty cool, i lost my natural but still pulled through.